sapphicghostbusters:

ungracefulace:

allo-dyke-privilege:

inconsistencies in mogai tingle that dont make sense:

• why straight means being heteroromantic heterosexual so you can’t be straight and ace at the same time but also gay doesn’t mean “h*m*romantic h*m*sexual” because you can still be gay and ace
• “allos dont know what it’s like to feel broken” actually as a lesbian i do, in fact, know what it’s like to “”feel broken””
• “allosexual privilege” explain how people are privileged for feeling sexual attraction? how are, for example, black men privileged for sexual attraction when they have been oversexualized for their race? how are women, ESPECIALLY women of color, privileged for being sexually attracted to others when women’s sexuality (ESPECIALLY woc’s sexuality) has been used as a tool to continue to oppress them?
• how there is a “spectrum” of sexual attraction on which there is a “normal” amount that society as a whole views as “socially acceptable” and how falling below that “normal” range makes one oppressed
• how lesbians and gay men oppress others on the basis of sexual orientation
• how children can be ace without sexualizing all other children
• how the LGBT+ community’s history somehow doesn’t matter to the LGBT+ community today
• how “the A ALWAYS stood for asexual :)”
• how orientations can be about how often or under what circumstances someone feels attraction rather than to who
• how calling cishet aces out on their homophobia is “aphobic”
• how “aphobia” is even a coherent basis of oppression
• how all the “”””evidence”””” of aphobia is always grounded on how much sex people have, but not having sex is neither an all-ace-encompassing experience NOR an ace-exclusive experience
• how unless ur aroace ur “”allosomething”” which means shitting on allos means ur shitting on urself?? this gets me every time
• David Jay
• Just all of David Jay is a disaster how can y’all support the movement he started
• how aces belong in the lgbt+ community despite it being filled with their “”””allosexual oppressors”””” but they don’t wanna make their own community to get away from the evil oppressive allos
• actually this one makes sense it’s easier to steal lgbt+ people’s resources when you act like ur one of them even if ur a cishet
• why microidentities surrounding people’s specific and intimate relationships to sex are appropriate to share with people who just wanted to know whether you date boys/girls/nb people

Anyway feel free to add ur own observations of things that dont make sense about cishet inclusionists!

A lot of these are pretty simple though and have been explained???

• Straight people are a privileged group, and as such without them having straight privilege, they are not straight. Gay however, isn’t a privileged group and is a word that encompasses a shit ton more identities (gay people, people attracted to multiple genders who are attracted to their own, nb people who do t consider any of their attraction to be straight). Being a gay ace isnt a contradiction since homoromantic asexuals exist and that is a mouthful, but straight ace isnt a thing. Het ace is, but not straight.

• There is a difference though. Aces feel broken for different reasons and have different struggles that allo people don’t and these things specifically hurt aces? Asexuals can complain about things that affect them and compare it to non aces when they are talking about solely asexuality. It hurts no one and since you aren’t ace, coming into these conversations is just you looking for a fight.

• Most ace inclusionists don’t believe in allo privilege and actively speak against that nonsense when they see it… wyd

• How does not being sen as normal by society make one oppressed? Is that really the “confusing inclusionist thing” you are going with?

• Who is saying this?? Also you can dull be bigoted without oppressing someone. Like, gay people can be biphobic arms even though they aren’t technically oppressing bi people they are still wrong and gross

• Asexuality is an orientation. Everyone us born with their orientation. I was just as ace as I am now when I was 5 and 7 and 9 just like I was as trans as I am at these ages. Even though kids probably noticed or felt it differently than a teenager or adult(when I was in elementary it was just me not getting crushes like everyone else and just thinking boys were neato), it’s in no way sexualizing to say they can be ace.

• You guys are the ones who act like exclusion of every group except for cis white gays either didn’t happen or “it’s different because we’re right this time” when we say it’s the same shit. Y’all are the ones denying history.

• Even if the A didnt, asexuals were always LGBT+. We, like every other “grey” identity (for lack of a better word. Basically if you aren’t gay or straight) were chucked under the B. And acting like allies, aka ACTUAL cishets being included is better than aces because “they might be closeted” whole saying you are trying to keep cishets out is pretty telling…

• Asexuality is who. The who is no one. However since a lot of aces use microidentities to further explain how or what they feel, typically because they are nd and need microlabels, they have them. And how someone identifies literally does nothing to you?

• Y’all aren’t doing that. You are mislabelling asexuals and then saying that you are just protecting from homophobia by pulling up an old troll post as amwhy all aces are straight and it’s gross. And demonizing a marginalized sexuality, in this case aces and aros, is aphobia. Try attacking actual cishet aces instead of every person you disagree with and maybe we would stop calling you aphobes. Food for thought.

• I actually linked you to multiple sources about this that you just ignored…

• see previous bullet

• This is one of the most incoherent… we shit on people who hate us. Aka, exclusonists and aphobes. I have no problem with allos? And there are a bunch of allo inclusionists?? Remember y’all made up this strawnan of an allo hating sex shaming 14 year old, that’s no one on the inclusionists side I can think of and if they are here they are as unimportant as uninucleus

• We didn’t choose the person to advocate for asexuality? Also most inclusionists agree he is a piece of shit so…

• … terfs started the exclusionist movement. They literally use it as baby’s first hate campaign. So how can you support that?

• Because we are oppressed by our identity dealing with sexuality/orientation? The ace community is a thing btw, it’s just part of the LGBT+ community. Just like how their is a gay community in the LGBT+ community and a trans community. The smaller groups which are more specific already exist, like… it’s not just a hodgepodge of anything that doesn’t look straight. Also allos are not oppressors? We don’t think that??? We think straight people are, and that every non straight and non cis person should work together for the same things. Y’all are the ones who are demonizing everything.

• Straight people aren’t going to make up a new identity if they want to infiltrate, they’ll literally just do it. Straight people only use LGBT+ identities as a joke (girls saying they are gay because gay means you like guys and guys saying they are lesbians because that means you like girls) and they can just lie? You do not have to fuck another dude or chick before you are allowed into an LGBT+ event. Also a ton of resources are already open to straights to the point where there are scholarships that specifically say that straight allies can apply and stuff. They are doing way worse than any ace can.

• if someone’s wants to know who someone will date… ask that question. Do bi and ply people sit down and list every identity they would get with? No, and they shouldn’t have to. If you ask me who I’ll date, I’ll say boys. But if you are asking what I am, I’m going to say ace or gay or both depending of what I’m feeling.

Kinda hoped I cleared stuff up, but based on the overall tone it seems more like a circlejerk so who knows?

I’m laughing at most of this but especially at the David Jay" point. Like, am I free to use Dan Savage as a mark against gay people that they have to defend and explain? Or Ru Paul? Good lord.

the idea that an axis of oppression must be ‘coherent’ doesn’t mean anything. i’ve looked up scholarly sources that talk about ‘coherent classes’ and i’ve never found a definition or explanation. it’s such a vague qualifier that anyone can use it against anything. TERFs routinely say trans people aren’t a coherent class. i’ve seen critiques that bi people aren’t ‘coherent’, and i’ve seen the same about women. it’s​ really just a phrase that’s popular on tumblr. that said, ace people have thousands of stories about how their lives are impacted by cisheteronormativity, so it’s really up to you to prove that aphobia isn’t ‘coherent’, as well as telling me how any other axis of oppression is validated by being ‘coherent’.

seriously this phrase has been bugging me for like 5 years of bad tumblr discourse and i really need to see a real definition to prove that you aren’t all talking out of your asses. thanks!