I feel like those “sexism/gendered expectations hurt men too” things would be a lot more effective if they didn’t just focus on internal issues guys being afraid to express their feelings or wear pink and acknowledged that, as not all men are equal in society, more external things like acts of violence that men experience at the hands of other men is often in part due to feelings about proving one’s masculinity. There have been multiple studies on how sexism is a gateway to white supremacy, for example and certain acts of racist violence when the target is a man can be an example of a man experiencing the negative effects of another man’s attempt to fulfill what he sees as gendered expectations (in addition to racism, because intersectionality and all). Homophobic violence against gay and bi men is perhaps a more obvious example of men suffering due to expectations of masculinity. Heck, if we’re going to expand this and include boys and not just men, the abuse some boys experience at the hands of the adult men in their life are acts of toxic masculinity. I think that’s why I get kind of a bad vibe when I see “feminist responses” stating that the ways that men are negatively impacted by gender expectations is their own fault, because I really don’t think some adult man dealing with trauma from his abusive father or who has faced homophobic or racist violence is really to blame for that on a personal level.
Edit: MRAs, get off of my post. This was meant to criticize a specific issue within certain sects of feminism and your irrelevant ramblings about your issues with “females” are not adding at all to the discussion I was trying to start.
{Image is a Tweet by Lena @DeaExLena, posted on Twitter at 10:54 PM on June 14th, 2018.
Text says:
Here is a strongly held opinion for you:
Telling women to modify their behaviour to avoid being victims of violent crime makes women LESS safe, as it allows predators to view women not adhering to these “rules” as fair game.
“traps aren’t trans women, they’re effeminate gay dudes who crossdress to deceive and fuck straight guys”
ok but you’ve, just decided to counter an accusation of transphobia with “checkmate, i’m a huge transphobe AND homophobe. weren’t expecting that one hey?”. like you really thought your knowledge of fetish anime would make you look Less Gross
continually surprised how chasers think they’re getting away with: “my fetish isn’t trans women, my fetish is just identical in every way to trans women except closeted, or traumatised to staying in the closet and who doesn’t have the language or confidence to ask to be respected. also a cartoon usually.”
@clitcheese     Traps (normally for the architype anyway ) are not trans, they are in fact Male biologically, and they identify as male as far as I know. They are simply gender roll nonconforming. Thus they are CIS and thus not identical to trans women. I think calling a cis man in a dress trying to trick men into sex trans is actually kind of degrading to trans women, but IDK that just IMO.
    Â
Of course this all ignores the high improbability of a trans woman
trying to deceive a straight man into having sex. Cause you know….
they know that they NORMALLY END UP DEAD OR BEATEN IF THEY DO THAT AND AS SUCH IT IS EXCEEDING DANGEROUS TO DO AS SUCH. Not to mention it’s really kinda shitty to deceive someone like that and trans people aren’t psychopaths who would do shit like that.
    Another matter is that the fantasy of fucking a dude in a dress is…. well… pretty damn gay. They are still a dude after all and as a “straight” guy the moment the dick pops out you SHOULD theoretically be out the door and down the street. I think it bespeaks to sort of ingrained homophobia that has caused a rejection of a part of the self. The truth in such individuals I theorizes is that they are gay(or bi) and simply can’t reconcile that with there oppressive notions of manliness they have grown up with; thus they need to dress up the target of there desires as feminine to make it acceptable to there “manhood” or otherwise let go there toxic masculinity(and finally let the healing begin).
once more this is all IMO and I love hearing feedback and pointers and other points of views especially from people with a pedigree on the subject like you.
traps aren’t real. i can’t argue with you on the basis that this is a real thing that exists in real life. it’s a fetish label. you’re looking at a poorly done caricature of the oldest stereotypes of trans women and saying “see this isn’t transmisogyny, the real transmisogyny would be to think this has something to do with trans women” when it’s very clearly what cis people think of us.
and again, read the op again. very carefully. like it predicted, you’re trying to have an argument over wether this is a harmful stereotype of gay men as rapists, or trans women as rapists. like do you hear yourself? you’re still relying on homophobia in your post trying to defend a stereotype. let it go
I recently heard the news that Adam by Ariel Schrag will be getting a movie. I read the book myself about a year and a half ago and I cannot stress enough just how problematic it is.
Adam is a book about a cis boy pretending to be a trans man in order to trick a lesbian into dating him.
Adam goes to New York to stay with his lesbian sister for the summer, and while he’s there he meets trans men who consider themselves lesbians. At a party he meets a lesbian he thinks is pretty and in order to get into a relationship with her he lies and tells her he’s a pre transition trans man. Let’s make a list of some of the highlights from the book, shall we?
At the very beginning of the book his sister and her girlfriend visit home and Adam and his friend spies on them having sex.
Almost all the trans men in the book identify as lesbians, implying that they are still women because they haven’t transitioned yet.
Adam, a cis straight boy, tells a lesbian that he is a trans man to trick her into dating him.
Incidentally Adam is 17 I believe, pretending to be 21. His girlfriend is in the 23 range, I don’t recall exactly.
There are explicit sex scenes, the first of which involved Adam using an ace bandage to hold his erection down and using a strapon to have sex with her.
In the second one he claims to be using a strapon but is, in reality, using his actual penis.
Which is fucking rape.
The book doesn’t try to justify this, it somehow manages to do something worse.
This second scene is one of the last in the book. After he pulls out he lays down next to her and confesses that he’s not trans. She responds “I know.”
She says after they first had sex she started fantasizing about him as a “real guy” (yes quote) and that the image stuck in her mind and she started subconsciously imagining him with a penis.
And it gets worse.
So he goes back to ohio and she sleeps with other girls (because for some reason she decides not to break up with this cis 17 year old who lied about his identity literally raped her) and one night he gets drunk and calls her a bitch and a fucking whore and whatever, and THAT’S apparently the point she thinks that maybe they should break up.
And one day they message eachother to catch up i think maybe he graduated at this point idk but hes planning on visiting his sister in new york and they wanna meet up and
She tells him about her new boyfriend.
Get ready for it
Cis. Man.
So. We have
An underage cishet boy lying about being an adult trans man in order to trick a lesbian into dating him!
A scene in which he actually rapes her!
The lesbian in question becomes attracted to cis men making Adam, essentially, conversion therapy!
Do NOT support Adam (2018)
Ariel Schrag used to sometimes be in my high school for some reason, so I’ve met her in person and let me tell you with just one look at her it becomes obvious that she sees trans men as an advanced form of butch women
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