sapphicghostbusters:

ungracefulace:

allo-dyke-privilege:

inconsistencies in mogai tingle that dont make sense:

  • why straight means being heteroromantic heterosexual so you can’t be straight and ace at the same time but also gay doesn’t mean “h*m*romantic h*m*sexual” because you can still be gay and ace
  • “allos dont know what it’s like to feel broken” actually as a lesbian i do, in fact, know what it’s like to “”feel broken””
  • “allosexual privilege” explain how people are privileged for feeling sexual attraction? how are, for example, black men privileged for sexual attraction when they have been oversexualized for their race? how are women, ESPECIALLY women of color, privileged for being sexually attracted to others when women’s sexuality (ESPECIALLY woc’s sexuality) has been used as a tool to continue to oppress them?
  • how there is a “spectrum” of sexual attraction on which there is a “normal” amount that society as a whole views as “socially acceptable” and how falling below that “normal” range makes one oppressed
  • how lesbians and gay men oppress others on the basis of sexual orientation
  • how children can be ace without sexualizing all other children
  • how the LGBT+ community’s history somehow doesn’t matter to the LGBT+ community today
  • how “the A ALWAYS stood for asexual :)”
  • how orientations can be about how often or under what circumstances someone feels attraction rather than to who
  • how calling cishet aces out on their homophobia is “aphobic”
  • how “aphobia” is even a coherent basis of oppression
  • how all the “”””evidence”””” of aphobia is always grounded on how much sex people have, but not having sex is neither an all-ace-encompassing experience NOR an ace-exclusive experience
  • how unless ur aroace ur “”allosomething”” which means shitting on allos means ur shitting on urself?? this gets me every time
  • David Jay
    • Just all of David Jay is a disaster how can y’all support the movement he started
  • how aces belong in the lgbt+ community despite it being filled with their “”””allosexual oppressors”””” but they don’t wanna make their own community to get away from the evil oppressive allos
    • actually this one makes sense it’s easier to steal lgbt+ people’s resources when you act like ur one of them even if ur a cishet
  • why microidentities surrounding people’s specific and intimate relationships to sex are appropriate to share with people who just wanted to know whether you date boys/girls/nb people

Anyway feel free to add ur own observations of things that dont make sense about cishet inclusionists!

A lot of these are pretty simple though and have been explained???

• Straight people are a privileged group, and as such without them having straight privilege, they are not straight. Gay however, isn’t a privileged group and is a word that encompasses a shit ton more identities (gay people, people attracted to multiple genders who are attracted to their own, nb people who do t consider any of their attraction to be straight). Being a gay ace isnt a contradiction since homoromantic asexuals exist and that is a mouthful, but straight ace isnt a thing. Het ace is, but not straight.

• There is a difference though. Aces feel broken for different reasons and have different struggles that allo people don’t and these things specifically hurt aces? Asexuals can complain about things that affect them and compare it to non aces when they are talking about solely asexuality. It hurts no one and since you aren’t ace, coming into these conversations is just you looking for a fight.

• Most ace inclusionists don’t believe in allo privilege and actively speak against that nonsense when they see it… wyd

• How does not being sen as normal by society make one oppressed? Is that really the “confusing inclusionist thing” you are going with?

• Who is saying this?? Also you can dull be bigoted without oppressing someone. Like, gay people can be biphobic arms even though they aren’t technically oppressing bi people they are still wrong and gross

• Asexuality is an orientation. Everyone us born with their orientation. I was just as ace as I am now when I was 5 and 7 and 9 just like I was as trans as I am at these ages. Even though kids probably noticed or felt it differently than a teenager or adult(when I was in elementary it was just me not getting crushes like everyone else and just thinking boys were neato), it’s in no way sexualizing to say they can be ace.

• You guys are the ones who act like exclusion of every group except for cis white gays either didn’t happen or “it’s different because we’re right this time” when we say it’s the same shit. Y’all are the ones denying history.

• Even if the A didnt, asexuals were always LGBT+. We, like every other “grey” identity (for lack of a better word. Basically if you aren’t gay or straight) were chucked under the B. And acting like allies, aka ACTUAL cishets being included is better than aces because “they might be closeted” whole saying you are trying to keep cishets out is pretty telling…

• Asexuality is who. The who is no one. However since a lot of aces use microidentities to further explain how or what they feel, typically because they are nd and need microlabels, they have them. And how someone identifies literally does nothing to you?

• Y’all aren’t doing that. You are mislabelling asexuals and then saying that you are just protecting from homophobia by pulling up an old troll post as amwhy all aces are straight and it’s gross. And demonizing a marginalized sexuality, in this case aces and aros, is aphobia. Try attacking actual cishet aces instead of every person you disagree with and maybe we would stop calling you aphobes. Food for thought.

• I actually linked you to multiple sources about this that you just ignored…

• see previous bullet

• This is one of the most incoherent… we shit on people who hate us. Aka, exclusonists and aphobes. I have no problem with allos? And there are a bunch of allo inclusionists?? Remember y’all made up this strawnan of an allo hating sex shaming 14 year old, that’s no one on the inclusionists side I can think of and if they are here they are as unimportant as uninucleus

• We didn’t choose the person to advocate for asexuality? Also most inclusionists agree he is a piece of shit so…

• … terfs started the exclusionist movement. They literally use it as baby’s first hate campaign. So how can you support that?

• Because we are oppressed by our identity dealing with sexuality/orientation? The ace community is a thing btw, it’s just part of the LGBT+ community. Just like how their is a gay community in the LGBT+ community and a trans community. The smaller groups which are more specific already exist, like… it’s not just a hodgepodge of anything that doesn’t look straight. Also allos are not oppressors? We don’t think that??? We think straight people are, and that every non straight and non cis person should work together for the same things. Y’all are the ones who are demonizing everything.

• Straight people aren’t going to make up a new identity if they want to infiltrate, they’ll literally just do it. Straight people only use LGBT+ identities as a joke (girls saying they are gay because gay means you like guys and guys saying they are lesbians because that means you like girls) and they can just lie? You do not have to fuck another dude or chick before you are allowed into an LGBT+ event. Also a ton of resources are already open to straights to the point where there are scholarships that specifically say that straight allies can apply and stuff. They are doing way worse than any ace can.

• if someone’s wants to know who someone will date… ask that question. Do bi and ply people sit down and list every identity they would get with? No, and they shouldn’t have to. If you ask me who I’ll date, I’ll say boys. But if you are asking what I am, I’m going to say ace or gay or both depending of what I’m feeling.

Kinda hoped I cleared stuff up, but based on the overall tone it seems more like a circlejerk so who knows?

I’m laughing at most of this but especially at the David Jay" point. Like, am I free to use Dan Savage as a mark against gay people that they have to defend and explain? Or Ru Paul? Good lord.

the idea that an axis of oppression must be ‘coherent’ doesn’t mean anything. i’ve looked up scholarly sources that talk about ‘coherent classes’ and i’ve never found a definition or explanation. it’s such a vague qualifier that anyone can use it against anything. TERFs routinely say trans people aren’t a coherent class. i’ve seen critiques that bi people aren’t ‘coherent’, and i’ve seen the same about women. it’s​ really just a phrase that’s popular on tumblr. that said, ace people have thousands of stories about how their lives are impacted by cisheteronormativity, so it’s really up to you to prove that aphobia isn’t ‘coherent’, as well as telling me how any other axis of oppression is validated by being ‘coherent’.

seriously this phrase has been bugging me for like 5 years of bad tumblr discourse and i really need to see a real definition to prove that you aren’t all talking out of your asses. thanks!

genocidaltheta:

joscribbles:

i am 100% here for supportive grandad!twelve

[Image description: fan art of twelve and bill. Twelve’s arm is wrapped around bill’s shoulders. The image is all black and white except the rainbow text on 12’s shirt that read “i love my gay daughter”]

hauntpark:

listen you fucks

i would bring back superwholock, “GRAB YOUR WANDS,” dashcon, Tumblr University, “always reblog the creator”…. i would bring back all that shit in a heartbeat if it meant it would replace discourse and the tumblr userbase just constantly shitting on each other for meaningless Woke Points

haruspis:

the-macra:

man some parts of the doctor who fandom are really determined not to enjoy dr who

i was on board w/ this show until they just tossed in the whole time travel thing

i just wanted a nice show about two school teachers arguing with an old man in a junkyard and then they ruined it! probably moffat’s fault

How to Criticize Israel Without Being Anti-Semitic

this-is-not-jewish:

If you’ve spent any time discussing or reading about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, I guarantee you’ve heard some variation of this statement:

OMG, Jews think any criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic! 

In the interests of this post, I’m going to assume that the people who express such sentiments are acting in good faith and really don’t mean to cause pain to or problems for Diaspora Jewry.  For those good-faith people, I present some guidelines for staying on the good side of that admittedly murky line, along with the reasoning why the actions I list are problematic.  (And bad-faith people, you can no longer plead ignorance if you engage in any of these no-nos.  Consider yourselves warned.)  In no particular order:

  1. Don’t use the terms “bloodthirsty,” “lust for Palestinian blood,” or similar.  Historically, Jews have been massacred in the belief that we use the blood of non-Jews (particularly of children) in our religious rituals.  This belief still persists in large portions of the Arab world (largely because white Europeans deliberately spread the belief among Arabs) and even in parts of the Western world.  Murderous, inhumane, cruel, vicious–fine.  But blood…just don’t go there.  Depicting Israel/Israelis/Israeli leaders eating children is also a no-no, for the same reason.
  2. Don’t use crucifixion imagery. Another huge, driving motivation behind anti-Semitism historically has been the belief that the Jews, rather than the Romans, crucified Jesus.  As in #1, this belief still persists.  There are plenty of other ways to depict suffering that don’t call back to ancient libels.
  3. Don’t demand that Jews publicly repudiate the actions of settlers and extremists.  People who make this demand are assuming that Jews are terrible people or undeserving of being heard out unless they “prove” themselves acceptable by non-Jews’ standards.  (It’s not okay to demand Palestinians publicly repudiate the actions of Hamas in order to be accepted/trusted, either.)
  4. Don’t say “the Jews” when you mean Israel.  I think this should be pretty clear.  The people in power in Israel are Jews, but not all Jews are Israelis (let alone Israeli leaders).
  5. Don’t say “Zionists” when you mean Israel. Zionism is no more a dirty word than feminism.  It is simply the belief that the Jews should have a country in part of their ancestral homeland where they can take refuge from the anti-Semitism and persecution they face everywhere else.  It does not mean a belief that Jews have a right to grab land from others, a belief that Jews are superior to non-Jews, or any other such tripe, any more than feminism means hating men.  Unless you believe that Israel should entirely cease to exist, you are yourself Zionist.  Furthermore, using “Zionists” in place of “Israelis” is inaccurate and harmful.  The word “Zionists” includes Diasporan Jews as well (most of whom support a two-state solution and pretty much none of whom have any influence on Israel’s policies) and is used to justify anti-Semitic attacks outside Israel (i.e., they brought it on themselves by being Zionists).  And many of the Jews IN Israel who are most violent against Palestinians are actually anti-Zionist–they believe that the modern state of Israel is an offense against God because it isn’t governed by halakha (traditional Jewish religious law).  Be careful with the labels you use.
  6. Don’t call Jews you agree with “the good Jews.”  Imposing your values on another group is not okay.  Tokenizing is not okay.  Appointing yourself the judge of what other groups can or should believe is not okay.
  7. Don’t use your Jewish friends or Jews who agree with you as shields.  (AKA, “I can’t be anti-Semitic, I have Jewish friends!” or “Well, Jew X agrees with me, so you’re wrong.”)  Again, this behavior is tokenizing and essentially amounts to you as a non-Jew appointing yourself arbiter over what Jews can/should feel or believe.  You don’t get to do that.
  8. Don’t claim that Jews are ethnically European.  Jews come in many colors–white is only one.  Besides, the fact that many of us have some genetic mixing with the peoples who tried to force us to assimilate (be they German, Indian, Ethiopian, Italian…) doesn’t change the fact that all our common ancestral roots go back to Israel.
  9. Don’t claim that Jews “aren’t the TRUE/REAL Jews.“  Enough said.
  10. Don’t claim that Jews have no real historical connection to Israel/the Temple Mount.  Archaeology and the historical record both establish that this is false.
  11. Don’t accuse Diasporan Jews of dual loyalties or treason.  This is another charge that historically has been used to justify persecution and murder of Jews.  Having a connection to our ancestral homeland is natural.  Having a connection to our co-religionists who live there is natural.  It is no more treasonous for a Jew to consider the well-being of Israel when casting a vote than for a Muslim to consider the well-being of Islamic countries when voting.  (Tangent: fuck drone strikes.  End tangent.)
  12. Don’t claim that the Jews control the media/banks/country that isn’t Israel.  Yet another historical anti-Semitic claim is that Jews as a group intend to control the world and try to achieve this aim through shadowy, sinister channels.  There are many prominent Jews in the media and in the banking industry, yes, but they aren’t engaged in any kind of organized conspiracy to take over those industries, they simply work in those industries.  The phrase “the Jews control” should never be heard in a debate/discussion of Israel.
  13. Don’t depict the Magen David (Star of David) as an equivalent to the Nazi swastika.  The Magen David represents all Jews–not just Israelis, not just people who are violent against Palestinians, ALL JEWS.  When you do this, you are painting all Jews as violent, genocidal racists.  DON’T.
  14. Don’t use the Holocaust/Nazism/Hitler as a rhetorical prop.  The Jews who were murdered didn’t set foot in what was then Palestine, let alone take part in Israeli politics or policies.  It is wrong and appropriative to try to use their deaths to score political points.  Genocide, racism, occupation, murder, extermination–go ahead and use those terms, but leave the Holocaust out of it.
  15. In visual depictions (i.e., political cartoons and such), don’t depict Israel/Israelis as Jewish stereotypes.  Don’t show them in Chassidic, black-hat garb.  Don’t show them with exaggerated noses or frizzled red hair or payus (earlocks).  Don’t show them with horns or depict them as the Devil.  Don’t show them cackling over/hoarding money.  Don’t show them drinking blood or eating children (see #1).  Don’t show them raping non-Jewish women.  The Nazis didn’t invent the tropes they used in their propaganda–all of these have been anti-Semitic tropes going back centuries.  (The red hair trope, for instance, goes back to early depictions of Judas Iscariot as a redhead, and the horns trope stems from the belief that Jews are the Devil’s children, sent to destroy the world as best we can for our “father.”)
  16. Don’t use the phrase “the chosen people” to deride or as proof of Jewish racism.  When Jews say we are the chosen people, we don’t mean that we are biologically superior to others or that God loves us more than other groups.  Judaism in fact teaches that everyone is capable of being a righteous, Godly person, that Jews have obligations to be ethical and decent to “the stranger in our midst,” and that non-Jews don’t get sent to some kind of damnation for believing in another faith.  When we say we’re the chosen people, we mean that, according to our faith, God gave us extra responsibilities and codes of behavior that other groups aren’t burdened with, in the form of the Torah.  That’s all it means.
  17. Don’t claim that anti-Semitism is eradicated or negligible.  It isn’t.  In fact, according to international watchdog groups, it’s sharply on the rise.  (Which sadly isn’t surprising–anti-Semitism historically surges during economic downturns, thanks to the belief that Jews control the banks.)  This sort of statement is extremely dismissive and accuses us of lying about our own experiences.
  18. Don’t say that since Palestinians are Semites, Jews/Israelis are anti-Semitic, too.  You do not get to redefine the oppressions of others, nor do you get to police how they refer to that oppression.  This also often ties into #8.  Don’t do it.  Anti-Semitism has exclusively meant anti-Jewish bigotry for a good century plus now.  Coin your own word for anti-Palestinian oppression, or just call it what it is: racism mixed with Islamophobia.
  19. Don’t blow off Jews telling you that what you’re saying is anti-Semitic with some variant of the statement at the top of this post.  Not all anti-Israel speech is anti-Semitic (a lot of it is valid, much-deserved criticism), but some certainly is.  Actually give the accusation your consideration and hear the accuser out.  If they fail to convince you, that’s fine.  But at least hear them out (without talking over them) before you decide that.

I’m sure this isn’t a comprehensive list, but it covers all the hard-and-fast rules I can think of.  (I welcome input for improving it.)

But wait!  Why should I care about any of this?  I’m standing up for people who are suffering!

You should care because nonsense like the above makes Jews sympathetic to the Palestinian plight wary and afraid of joining your cause.  You should care because, unfortunately, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has correlated to an uptick in anti-Semitic attacks around the world, attacks on Jews who have no say in Israeli politics, and this kind of behavior merely aggravates that, whether you intend it to or not. 

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a real minefield in that it’s a clash between oppressed people of color and an ethnoreligious group that is dominant in Israel but marginalized and brutalized elsewhere (often nowadays on the exact grounds that they share ethnoreligious ties with the people of Israel), so it’s damned hard to toe the line of being socially aware and sensitive to both groups.  I get that.  But I think it is possible to toe that line, and I hope this post helps with that.  (And if a Palestinian makes a similar list of problematic arguments they hear targeted at them, I’d be happy to reblog it, too.)

So, TL;DR version:

  1. Do go ahead and criticize Israel.
  2. Don’t use anti-Semitic stereotypes or tropes.
  3. Don’t use overly expansive language that covers Jews as a whole and not just Israel.
  4. Don’t use lies to boost your claims.
  5. Do engage Jews in conversation on the issues of Israel and of anti-Semitism, rather than simply shutting them down for disagreeing.
  6. Do try to be sensitive to the fact that, fair or not, many people take verbal or violent revenge for the actions of Israelis on Diasporan Jews, and Diasporan Jews are understandably frightened and upset by this.

May there be peace in our days.