The cishet distraction

queeranarchism:

queeranarchism:

felixedwardrocketship:

queeranarchism:

Cisgender LGB people: I see a lot of you speaking about ‘the cishets’ with some kind of bitter taste behind it but never acknowledging your own cisgender privilege and how much transphobia there is in the LGBT community and I want you to know that you’re not fooling anyone. 

Ewwww… cis people using the term cishet like that is awful, why would they do that? It’s a term for people who are both queer and trans to talk about our oppression, not for cis queers to distance themselves from their transphobia and transmisogyny.

Yeah, the reasons:

– 

to distance themselves from their transphobia and transmisogyny. 

– to replace the way they have talked about ‘the straights’ as a coherent group when they didn’t want to consider that other people might face any kind of oppression

Pretending that ‘lgbt’ and ‘cishet; are coherent blocks that have all experiences in common is a convenient way to ignore their own transphobia, transmisogyny and cisgender privilege all while providing a tool to exclude people. 

Vocal acephobes do this the most, accusing asexual and aromantic people of being ‘cishet’, resisting any kind of solidarity with other issue groups because it would bring the lgbt community in contact with ‘the cishets’. 

It’s gross and it is so obviously holding lgbt/queer movements back, keeping them trapped in debates about who is ‘cishet’ when they so desperately need to be building a strong wide resistance to the rise of neofascism. 

I wanted to add:

if you create a strong enough ‘us vs. the evil irredeemable cishets’ mentality

this can be used to avoid all accountability ever. 

Don’t like being confronted with your racism? Target all your racism at a cishet POC who did something homophobic once. If a POC from the lgbt community calls you out on it you can call them ‘divisive’, you can accuse them of collaborating with the evil ‘cishets’, you can ask them why they hate gay people, etc. etc. 

If enough white lgbt people with a similar mindset support you, you can create a culture where racism is okay as long as the target it not lgbt, and this will drive away persky lgbt POC who might talk about white privilege and other uncomfortable topics or who might at some point catch you just being plain old racist to everyone. 

Don’t wanna be confronted with your ableism? ditto. 

gay rights vs gay liberation

theangrybi:

autismserenity:

I keep coming across pieces about the U.S. “LGBT” movement’s history that talk about how, during the 70s especially, one core idea of the movement was that gender and sexuality would, should, get blown wide open. 

That ultimately pretty much everyone was bisexual underneath; that gender itself was a big nonbinary mess; and everyone would be able to be their true bisexual, often genderqueer self after the revolution. We wouldn’t have or need the gender binary anymore. 

This was a much more natural belief at the time, because gay and lesbian and bi and ace had been thought of as essentially different genders. Because “normal” was two binary sexes, with two corresponding binary genders, which were attracted to each other, and would act on that attraction to make more little normal people. This was the function of society, the thing that gave women any value, the whole point of life.

From “Identity and Ideas: Strategies for Bisexuals,” an essay by bi activist Liz Highleyman in Bisexual Politics: Theories, Queeries, and Visions (1995), which I need to quote from more extensively but not rn:

“As the social movements of the early 1970s fell apart or lost their radical edge in the 1980s, the gay liberation movement, now known as the gay and lesbian movement, followed suit.”

This sentence puts it in a nutshell, I think. There was a really concrete shift, from radical “liberation” from the system for everyone, to acceptance from the system for these two groups.

“There was a growing emphasis on an identity politics model that likened gays to oppressed racial and ethnic minorities. Sexual identity was increasingly seen as an immutable characteristic without sweeping social or political ramifications. The movement became more focused on civil rights and assimilation into mainstream society.”

 It wasn’t an accident, that shift away from the overlapping bi/trans/intersex politics and bi/trans/intersex paradigm*. It was extremely deliberate.

It must have seemed like an easier sell to the straight world, which I can understand. I’m sure a lot of people thought that this strategy would benefit everyone.

But not only does it leave many of our issues completely ignored or actively erased, it’s also a model that can never work for us.

This just kind of jelled for me for the first time, reading this. It’s much harder to see if you don’t know about both models, at least for me. I tend to believe the “no no, we’re for you too!” without thinking about how and why that hasn’t been working.

The civil rights/assimilation model is very rooted in the whole idea that “the only thing that’s different about us is which gender we love!” It’s the we’re just like you model. It works pretty well for fitting-into-society stuff: marriage, health care, employment rights, military service, media representation. Stuff that straight people have, so they can go, “okay, I see how you’re like me, it seems unfair and terrible that you shouldn’t have these things too!”

It works really fucking badly for stuff where we are not like them.

The problem is actually that it works really fucking badly for stuff where we do not fit into the gender binary.

That’s the specific way the system demands that we Be Like Them. It treats everything else, everything that isn’t being a binary sex/gender and wanting a binary sex/gender, as a freakish and in-valid choice, and punishes us for it.

The only progress we’ve really seen is that sometimes, it’s not seen as a Bad Freakish Choice to want the “wrong” binary gender, and very occasionally, it’s not seen as a Bad Freakish Choice to be the “wrong” binary gender.

A lot of the trans movement’s progress has come from doing the same thing the gay and lesbian movement has done: “look at us, look how gender-normative and binary-gendered we are, look how we just want to be a normal gender and love a normal gender. Nothing threatening going on here!”

It works. I’m not going to knock that. People use this shit because they are fucking desperate and fearing for their lives.

But it also means those of us who can’t say “we’re just like normal people” become ballast.

You know: the stuff you throw overboard so your hot air balloon can take off.

I think this is what’s at the core of “ace discourse,” “sga discourse,” and all those other gatekeeping arguments. 

The system only, conditionally, grudgingly, gives certain rights, in some places, to the minority of us who have convincingly argued that we’re Just Like Them. It is exceedingly clear to those people that mixing with non-approved groups puts not only those limited civil rights, but also the entire model used to win them, in danger. 

It’s a choice. We all face it. If you identify more with the need for all those normal rights – or with the oppressions around being, or being into, into the wrong binary gender – or you just see that this model is working for some people and you want it to work for you – then you’re likely to cast your lot with the binary-gender-based “gay rights” model, which means you’re likely to take a “gatekeeping” tack. 

If you identify more with the need for total freedom from the rules of the binary gender system, for whatever reason – and you’re not put off by the fact that we don’t have a working political model around that – then you’re likely to cast your lot with the “gay liberation” model, which means you’re likely to take the “radical inclusion” tack that’s inherent to that model. 

* (I don’t think there was an intersex movement at the time; intersex people are still incredibly silenced by not only the media but actively, intentionally, by the entire medical industry. But it is an explicitly intersex-friendly and very ace/aro-friendly model, in a way that the existing model has definitely not been.)

This. This right here is so fucking important to me. As an intersex, aromantic, bisexual, genderqueer person….I feel this keenly.

Its why I’ve felt so disconnected from the community that calls itself “LGBT.” Its why I’ve felt exceedingly more comfortable with the communities that receive backlash from the LGBT – the mogai and queer communities.

The entire model, the obsession, the focus of the LGBT on just “homophobia and transphobia,” or “SGA and trans people,” is only “historical” up to a point. The rejection of the word “queer” and the rejection of calling our community “the queer community” (and any other similarly accepting, non strictly defined community labels) goes hand in hand in all of this.

Its a clear and purposeful prioritization of community members who are binary; of members who are exactly everything I am not.

And to further the evidence that its entirely political, its pretty much entirely western. Every single existing friend I have in the community from other countries express some sort of bafflement at the behavior and treatment of us “less acceptable” members. They get confused when we talk about a-specs or bisexuals not being accepted, because that’s only an issue over here, with the “acceptable” members who have decided we don’t benefit their movement.

But I am so thankful for someone else pointing this out and showing evidence because I am not the best with words, but its something I actively experience and have had to deal with, without the proper knowledge and words to protest my treatment completely.

The current model the LGBT uses is complete and utter bullshit. Its a community the professes to care equally about all of us – but has no problem using methods and tactics that throw us under the bus, because they work for some of them.

If a community is going to have solidarity, then the methods that prioritize certain members while hurting others needs to be condemned. No amount of success for the few justifies harming the other members, lest you give up the pretense of being equally supportive of everyone.

Which is also why I think the mogai and queer communities have gotten under such heavy fire. Its what we specifically get targeted for – we equally support all members, which is seen as unacceptable. We use a completely different model – the rejection of the binary completely, anti assimilation, which undermines everything they’re trying for. We don’t shirk from embracing and displaying our blatant rebellion and differences from a pericisheteronormative society, which effectively ruins the chances of gold star gays getting the community seen as “just like one of them.”

Its why there’s been such disgust displayed at the idea of being associated with “weird, special snowflake” genders, its why the attraction TO those genders has been so heavily scrutinized and invalidated. Its why “mogai” can be thrown around like an insult, its why we get mocked as “radikweers.” Laughing at those of us that dare to fully abandon the binary, pushing us to the fringes of the community and denying us voices, words, resources, and acknowledgement, and actively denying our existence and validity this way is a frantic attempt to save that model that prioritizes them; and they believe doing so will put them in a better, more acceptable light with the rest of society that treats us the same.

Its why respectability politics has become just as much of a danger to me as pericisheteronormativity is.

And this gives me words to express how I feel about it all. “Anti gay rights, pro gay liberation.”

ihateyoufightme:

the-ace-of-weasels:

yall-aphobes-need-to-stop:

I got someone harassing me on messenger trying to tell me that the community has ALWAYS BEEN LGBT ever since Stonewall and that Martha P Johnson was the trans woman who started it all

First off, it was Marsha P Johnson.

Secondly, despite the fact that Marsha was the one to start the fight, despite the fact that trans people have been fighting since day one, the trans community was not considered a part of the movement until the 90’s. Many people in The Gay Rights Movement said similar things about trans people as they do now about cisace people: “they don’t experience same sex attraction, therefore they don’t belong!”

It is NOT trans erasure to acknowledge that our efforts within the community weren’t properly recognized, and that we weren’t given a letter in the community until relatively recently. It is being aware of our history, our past. It is knowing how the sins of our past are repeating themselves with a new target.

Also this person intentionally misgendered me so they can fuck right the hell off.

maybe it’s just me, but it seems a bit transphobic to brush the issues the trans community has had in being fully acknowledged as part of the community under the rug. 

it’s basically denying the lateral aggression the trans community has had to deal with (and still does somewhat since we still have movements to drop the T come up every now and then and some other stuff as well) as well as erasing the efforts the trans community to be acknowledged. if they can tell us we can’t talk about it because it’s bad then they can eventually pretend it never happened which can further their whole lie that “right from the beginning it’s been one big happy family fighting against homophobia and transphobia.”

Reminder that Stonewall was where trans women gathered because they weren’t welcome in gay establishments of the time

violence committed by cis LGB people against trans people isn’t lateral aggression though. cis and trans people aren’t ever, ever on equal footing so ‘lateral violence’ is a wildly misinformed phrase here

allosexisterfs:

jasonptodd:

ry-la:

fandomshateblackpeople:

sinbadism:

courteousmingler:

calling acephobia “heterophobia” is akin to calling transmisogyny “misandry”. 

as aces are rejected by cisheteropatriarchy and therefore incapable of straight privilege, just as trans women are incapable of “male” privilege.

tell your friends. 

please shut the fuck up

please shut the fuck up

please shut the fuck up

please shut the fuck up

i love the number of people tagging this to go off about how courteousmingler, an allo trans woman, is fucked up for somehow obliviously minimizing the oppression that trans people face

exclusionists will give lip service to this stuff all day long but whenever a trans woman says that she sees a lot of similarities between her own experiences and those of the ace community, or between what TERFs say about her and what exclusionists say about aces, suddenly it’s silence​-the-trans-woman day again

Why are “gatekeepers” of the lg community a bad thing? Lesbian la and gay people have specific issues and need their own spaces

earthmoonlotus:

protect-lgbtqia-kids:

LG community…

Ya know, because those nasty hatekeepers want to keep other specific groups from getting their own needed spaces to talk about their own specific issues and to talk with each other about issues that we all have in common.
Like being hated on by the  Straight TM crowd for not being straight enough for their tastes.

Because hatekeepers readily play into the hands of the Straight TM crowd and divide the community and dissolve power instead of collecting it.
Nothing nicer for the Straight TM crowd than marginalized groups tearing each other apart, is there?

Because those nasty hatekeepers think only their problems count, that they are the only real victims.
That Bi people are ‘fake gay’ and ‘just straight’ or ‘greedy’.
That trans women are predators.
That trans men are only confused women.
That non binary people are fake.
That intersex does not exist, even when it is scientifically proven.
That pan and poly is greedy/bi/not real/cheaters/whatever.
That aspec is only a modifier/are all straight/nonsense/not real/not hated on.

And to top it off, most if not all hatekeepers are also racist and sexist.
They follow the white coloniser view of gender and sex.
 The view of conquerers and killers who destroyed indigenous cultures who dared to not have the same narrow, hatefull view of sex, gender, women and family.

REGs also want to call themselves feminists but readily speak over, and abuse  women who oppose their view, especially WoC.

REGs are also ableist often enough.

And you are showing it off perfectly.

LG community

also, there’s a difference between wanting an exclusive lesbian space or gay space (which is totally fine), and believing that bi people are “basically straight” or that asexuality isn’t really a sexual orientation. Wanting to have spaces where gay men and lesbians can talk about specific issues that affect them, just like wanting to have spaces where bi and/or pan people can talk about their issues, or spaces where ace people can talk about their issues, is way different from telling people of another group that their issues aren’t valid, or that they might as well be straight, or that their identity doesn’t/shouldn’t exist. Most inclusionists are in favor of having spaces within LGBTQIAPN+ communities that are exclusive to people of certain demographics, such as trans people, or bi people, or gay people. The difference is when people tell others that their sexuality doesn’t exist, or isn’t really a sexuality, or that they might as well be straight. That’s going from saying “my identity and issues are important" to saying “all these other identities and issues aren’t important”.

WHY IS GATEKEEPING THE LG COMMUNITY A BAD THING? holy shit terfs can die 🙃

if you think forcing terfs out of online spaces is ‘toxic’, or describe it as a witchhunt, or “just tumblr going overboard again” then kindly get a million miles from me and don’t consider yourself an ally to trans women ever, thanks​

earthmoonlotus:

autismserenity:

Like do people not understand that, if nothing else, when you use TERF arguments on another group, you are strengthening TERFs?? Because when people who agree with you stumble across TERF logic, it’s going to seem reasonable and familiar to them? It’s going to just be building on premises they’ve already accepted?

some examples: “you cannot identify/opt out of privilege” (further reading), “there is an invasion of oppressors coming into our community claiming to be oppressed members of it and They Are The Enemy” (further reading) (especially when you consider that they put as much, if not more energy into attacking those who they perceive as “invaders” as they do against the actual oppressors in question, and they receive hardly any if any backlash from the actual oppressors in question for doing so; if the “invaders” really were members of the oppressor class, you’d think actual members of the oppressor class would get mad at you for attacking the “invaders”, but they hardly ever do, if ever), “all oppression [insert group of people] claims to face is actually misdirected homophobia/misogyny” (including the specific idea that biphobia isn’t real and it’s just homophobia/lesbophobia), “People only have [insert identity/ies] because of internalized homophobia”, mocking/slandering inclusionists as liberals who don’t understand radical anti-oppression theory and class analysis (further reading), especially using the word “kweer” to mock queer people they disagree with, being against the use of the word “queer”, “You just hate lesbians!!!!” (and presuming that it’s necessary to hold their viewpoint in order to be a lesbian / that their viewpoint is the default and/or should be the default for lesbians), identifying with the term “gatekeeper”, claiming that “terf” is a silencing tactic (further reading), claiming that no-platforming is a silencing tactic, claiming that invalidation of personal identity is meaningless (this specifically enables the idea that misgendering isn’t violent),  bonding with right-wingers over hate against people who disagree with you / using arguments originally used by right-wingers, etc.

Keep in mind that this rhetoric is so similar that TERFs have noticed this and used it to their advantage. (source 1, source 2, source 3, source 4, source 5)

Also keep in mind that, while there may be one or two terfs who favor ace inclusion, there are hundreds who are against it. That shouldn’t be a good sign. And non-TERF inclusionists have in the past shown more sympathy towards TERFs than they do towards ace people. (example 1, example 2, example 3, example 4, example 5)

This doesn’t make all ace-exclusionists TERFs, but as the OP was saying, it makes them enablers of TERFs, which is a form of transmisogyny. Also note that, unless you yourself are a trans woman / transfeminine person, you can’t say “but there are trans women on our side!!!” as a way to argue against this, because that’s basically using the “my trans friend agrees with me!!!” argument. You can’t use that as an excuse to say something’s ok when trans women are saying it actively puts them and their sisters in danger.

aro-dynamic:

luchagcaileag:

knightfrog1248:

yourlocalsassyqueer:

densoro:

What I don’t get about the ‘resources’ argument is, how exactly do asexuals waste LGBT resources if we don’t need them? If being ace won’t get you kicked out of your home, you won’t need housing. If being ace won’t get you fired, you won’t need the financial backup. If being ace doesn’t put you at physical risk, you won’t need the protective services that the LGBT community can muster.

If, on the other hand, being ace does cause you to deal with any of the above, then the resources aren’t being ‘wasted’ – they’re going toward the safety and well-being of somebody who’s being punished for not being straight. Isn’t that the point of those resources to begin with?

I’m honestly confused how this argument even works. The only way it makes sense is if we’re walking up to a community that we have zero need of, and they’re just going ‘okey-dokey! 8D’ and handing us shit we clearly don’t need. Is that what y’all are trying to say? I’m honestly curious.

the more I see this contradiction, the more it bothers me. I constantly see BOTH “aces dont get kicked out of their homes!! ace people dont get murdered!!!” and “cishet aces/aros are stealing resources made by and for LGBT people!!!”

Which is it? How are they taking these resources if they don’t need them? cishet aces/aros aren’t getting kicked out of their homes but theyre also taking up LGBT shelters?

The only thing I can think of that would include “aces take resources” and “aces don’t get kicked out of homes/fired/raped/abused for being ace” is information resources, and that doesn’t make sense either. How is it bad to have a greater understanding of human sexuality?

like, if a confused young person has questions about their sexuality, they are going to go to an LGBT group (no matter what it’s called) and ask questions. At that point, they are Questioning. How would it help anybody if the young person asks about not really feeling attraction? to anyone? I guess? and then told that they’re basically straight, go away you are taking up resources! Like…

#FUCKING THANK YOU #APHOBIA #MORE AND MORE #IT BECOMES CLEAR THAT THESE PEOPLE #HAVE ALMOST NO IRL COMMUNITY BUILDING EXPERIENCE #AND JUST SCREECH THE THINGS THEY’VE BEEN TAUGHT ON TUMBLR

and again (i know it’s not the case all the time), remember how many tr*scum were pre-everything trans guys who were scared of not being able to transition due to medical gatekeeping and the fear of being compared to non-dysphoric nb people? i’m seeing such a parallel between young lgbt folk who are scared of not having resources they need and lash out at others. 

understanding where it can come from isn’t condoning it, but it can provide understanding. 

and me? i’m co-president of a university pride group next fall, and if The Cishet Aros/Aces want to help me pass out flyers for drag-o-ween and rainbow prom and shit, so i don’t have to do so much work by myself, i welcome them and i’m totally down to talk about asexuality and aromanticism during meetings alongside all our other discussions and activism. we might even do something for ace awareness week like we have the last couple years! we might even have someone write an extra coming out monologue about figuring out they’re aro/ace or coming out to family! that’d be cool, i actually did that a couple years ago and so did one of my good friends. 

and of course if they’re talking about how disgusting gay sex is, we’re probably gonna have a talk about things that are appropriate and not appropriate to say in pride, because that one definitely isn’t. but if someone says something about sex (or romance!) being a universal need we’re also gonna talk about how that’s not cool to say and most definitely hurts people. 

it’s almost like we’re going to recognize that people have different needs, experiences, and privileges, and then try to account for those and support people! wow!

i know people have different definitions of the word but to me, that’s kind of what a community is. 

zilhouts:

princaceleia:

tbh I’m not a big fan of the idea of “if you hold on long enough, discoursers will get bored and move onto another victim”. I don’t want there to be another victim. why is ace discourse like this.

actually i wanna add on bc as an intersex person this especially troubles me. you can already see exclusionists talking about how “intersex ppl arent inherently lgbt” and although theres no real main “intersex discourse” yet, were just collateral right now, its still really scary because its indicative of what could very easily come next. and the fact that intersex ppl already have so little representation in the public conscious, even less than aces, means that if such a discourse does come to pass it could easily damage our progress. i wonder if exclusionists realize that.

they think they can do whatever they want because “youre not oppressed” and then their gross opinions damage the movement to gain visibility of our oppressions and fight back against them. what happens if theres someday an intersex discourse and people hear about it, specifically other lgbtq+ people, and the belief that we dont belong makes rounds in our community? other lgbtq+ people hear this info coming from other lgbtq+ people and they believe it because its coming from our own mouths. itll spread to pericistraight people too, and well just be at an even larger loss, because then itll continue to be the accepted belief that its okay to hurt intersex people for being intersex, its okay to want us gone, and things will get worse for us. lord knows exclusionary veliefs are already making things worse for aces, hopefully it doesnt spread any further but i dont have much hope.

exclusionists see movements that are still gaining ground and think that because theyre not so public right now that theres nothing there. they dont think in terms of why things happen, or of the future. theyre only concerned with stepping on others to get what they want. “youre stealing resources from us!” no, theres plenty to go around; you just want them all for yourselves.

its really sad. i didnt start identifying as m-spec until the m-spec discourse had long passed (im still not even sure i really do), so it was the ace discourse that really got me. ive always been aroace, since i was just a little kid that was how i identified, and all of a sudden a bunch of people i thought i could really trust turned against me and im told this is actually fairly common, in fact, the same thing happened just awhile ago. i thought the only hate i would be getting would be from my oppressors, but i was wrong in thinking that somewhere advertised as a safe space would be free of them. and thats horrible. i shouldnt have to be on-guard here, of all places. if i was already m-spec i would have known this, which is also a terrible realization. and now im watching as the next target is slowly being worked in… another one of my identities.

being intersex is one of the most important parts of my identity. so is being aroace. if intersex discourse is the next thing that comes out of this, idk if ill be able to handle it. if yall see me there its going to be the shortest discourse ever because im not gonna be doing anything but spamming the tags with “shut UP.”

aros and aces and bi people and pan people and nb ppl and intersex ppl are all inherently lgbtq+, dont kill the movement to spread awareness of our inclusion just because you prefer things to be the way they used to be, when you had all the resources that were there and we had none. i really, really dont want to have to fight to convince anyone of something so obvious after /this/.

exclusionist voice: “we hate TERFs! we always no-platform them any chance we get and don’t want to be associated with them. anyway here’s my story about compulsory heterosexuality …”

discoursegrips:

mogai-is-bogai:

discoursegrips:

mogai-is-bogai:

hevvincourse:

mogai-is-bogai:

ainpost:

discoursecrow:

mypolitics:

mukhannath:

mood

i’m so confused by this?? are you saying compulsory heterosexuality is transphobic?

no_correlation.jpg

A) comparing trans people to terfs
B) sad
C) trans lesbians can also experience compulsory heterosexuality

i THINK it’s cuz someone said that comp het was a term created by terfs?

That’s so damn ignorant. Trans women that are lesbians can experience compulsory heterosexuality, and in fact, a lot of them do like most lesbians. Coming from me, a trans woman who is a lesbian and does, in fact, experience compulsory heterosexuality. So, this is transmisogynistic, again. Just because a term was made by shitty people doesn’t mean that everyone who uses it is shitty, it’s a term with a meaning and the meaning is not about the person who made it. If we acted like that in regards to every term we’d have barely anything to use.

oh for sure, i’m just saying i think that’s why anon said that. comp het is very useful terminology.

@mypolitics @discoursecrow @ainpost @mogai-is-bogai @hevvincourse the point is that, though its a useful concept to have the language to talk about, the term was created by a transmisoynist. create a new term 

talking over a trans woman? i see i see

now its my turn to use this 

internalised heteronormativity. It’s a more coherent term, it doesn’t have a TERF connection, it hasn’t been used as ‘proof’ that bisexual women are wrong for IDing as bi, it’s really not difficult to use

also i swear stop fucking pulling this “you’re a transmisogynist for disagreeing with the trans women on our side of the discourse” it’s really embarrassing. you’re just closing your eyes and hoping there aren’t trans women who disagree w you